Should StarFrontiersman.com...

    Stay exactly how it is, leaving interactive content to this site alone
    56% (31 votes)
    Expand to have a forum (separate from this site)
    9% (5 votes)
    Expand to have a wiki for us to create a full-fledged StarFrontiers wiki
    15% (8 votes)
    Expand to have a forum and wiki!!
    20% (11 votes)
    Total votes: 55
    Comments:

    SmootRK's picture
    SmootRK
    April 4, 2008 - 10:24am
    Add a forum for folks to discuss things (anything) there... away from the confusion of the Project Driven divisions and multitudes of sub-forums....

    ... my 2 cents anyhow
    <insert witty comment here>

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 4, 2008 - 10:28am
    SmootRK wrote:
    Add a forum for folks to discuss things (anything) there... away from the confusion of the Project Driven divisions and multitudes of sub-forums....

    ... my 2 cents anyhow
    haha then why didn't ya vote?
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    SmootRK's picture
    SmootRK
    April 4, 2008 - 10:33am
    I was first!! What you talking about? Foot in mouth
    <insert witty comment here>

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 4, 2008 - 10:52am
    OOPS haha I didn't refresh my screen when I said dat....

    I was thinking a StarFrontiers Wiki would be cool, basically the complete rulebook done up in a standard wiki format.  Elements of this has been done elsewhere, but it's never been complete.  I thought it would be cool.  I'm a little reluctant to have any content on starfrontiersman.com that requires a user login.  I sorta like that site being simple.  But adding a wiki might be cool...

    Forums are pretty easy to add as well.  The tools are simple enough to develop there.  But if I make the site not require user login, then I open the forums up to spam (unless I require people to type in a number from a graphic with EVERY post... which doesnt' sound fun to me haha)
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    aramis's picture
    aramis
    April 4, 2008 - 11:31am
    My primary objection to a wiki is that, essentially, this site is licensed to produce materials which fall under someone else's copyrights and trademarks.

    A wiki typically has a creative commons license, allowing any posted content to be used by others without limitation, essentially open sourcing the materials within.

    A rulebook, especially, would be an egregious violation of TSR/Wizards/Hasbro's trademarks and copyrights if placed in an open content service. MAJOR liability.

    Imperial Lord's picture
    Imperial Lord
    April 4, 2008 - 1:02pm
    Shut up and play - that's what I say.

    THAT should be the true purpose of the site.

    We have enough rules.

    bioreplica's picture
    bioreplica
    April 4, 2008 - 4:52pm
    «If it ain't broken, don't fix it...»

    I'm relatively new to this site. Its rich and full of interesting material. I like having all the stuff bundled together. In fact I was wandering last night why StarFrontiersman had a different website instead of having its own section in here?

    What is the motivation behind this poll?

    (for the wiki I'm forced to admit Aramis may be right)
    «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 4, 2008 - 5:45pm
    My letter of permission from WOTC/HASBRO gives me permission to distribute the "Digitally Remastered" stuff I've done on the starfrontiersman site, and the continued support of the product through the starfrontiersman webzine. Even the liability-heavy Gamma Dawn wasn't red flagged by them when shown (which I feared it would). The starfrontiersman's adaptation of the Aliens creatures, and the questionable inclusion/conversion of Alternity (with borrowed scanned art!) was fine by them. I'm honestly not concerned about the liability of the wiki idea - especially since the material is already freely available on the web. I wasn't saying we should create new rules on such a wiki... I was just recently enamored with the d20 SRD hypertext sites and thought "why can't we have such a utility online?"

    The reason it's a separate site is simple... the first site I ever made myself was that starfrontiersman site, and it was pure html and it sorta sucked but was simple to use.  It was just for the distribution of the content I'd put together for the game.  This site over here was my desire to create a development site where we can discuss things and do stuff creatively.  Originally I had planned on inheriting that site's duties over here and abandoning the first site.  However, I received so much criticism that this site was difficult to use and was overly complicated, lacking too many feature (and in the same breath saying that it was too feature-heavy) and frankly I decided to just keep both of them up.  My recent re-writing of starfrontiersman.com was simply because it was a pain in the butt adding to the "whats new" page through html.  So I rebuilt it as CMS and that makes it simple for me to add content (I can even do so from my blackberry like I'm writing this post).  There are people who use the sfman site, and people who use this site, and they aren't always the same people.  Also, since this site is an experiment in cooperation with people with egos and feelings, I knew the potential existed for problems that could even cause it to collapse on itself and didn't ever want it to interfere with the existing site.  Finally, since I have limited permission from WOTC/HASBRO for the sfman site, the unmoderated use of this development site was (initially) a worry in liability for me... and if I ever got a C&D it would be compartmentalized to this site alone.
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    bioreplica's picture
    bioreplica
    April 4, 2008 - 6:16pm
    I see. Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
    «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs

    gnytro's picture
    gnytro
    April 16, 2008 - 12:48am
    I voted "stay the same", but have a caveat or two:

    Reorganize the forum a bit. Make it possible to access all the project forums as well as the main forum from one page.

    Highlight and promote the chatroom a bit, it's always empty these days.

    I'm not a fan of Wikis at all, I wouldn't use it if it was here, so...

    Other than that, things look good.
    ~ Rich
    berentiu@gmail.com

    gnytro's picture
    gnytro
    April 16, 2008 - 1:02am
    CleanCutRogue wrote:
    My letter of permission from WOTC/HASBRO gives me permission to distribute the "Digitally Remastered" stuff I've done on the starfrontiersman site, and the continued support of the product through the starfrontiersman webzine.


    Just to clarify, I don't think Aramis was questioning the legality of the content here at all, but rather expressing a purist opinion of what a wiki should be (100% open content created by the contributors, as I understand it). Although used here with permission from the owner, the material that would go into a SF Wiki would not, by its very derivative nature, be 100% open content. The concern seems to be that some yahoo would see the SF material on a Wiki, assume it's open content under the creative commons license, use it illegally (intentionally or otherwise), and then get in trouble from Wizards/Hasbro legal, possibly leading to trouble for this site when said yahoo says "well, these guys put it on a Wiki, so I assumed..."

    On the other hand though, there are various Wiki sites, on Wikipedia and elsewhere, for D&D and its campaign worlds, as well as other games. I think it is generally assumed by those contributing that the average gamer finding that material on the Wiki pages will be smart enough to read the legal disclaimers and not make poor conclusions about the openess of it.

    As far as using a wiki, or wikis for each project (especially if they are just private working drafts for the members, to be converted to a different format later) to create new, original content, derivative or not, I think that is more in line with the purist approach to wikis.

    As I said, I'm no fan of Wikis for various reasons, though not the same as Aramis'. If it comes to be I won't complain, just wont use it.



    ~ Rich
    berentiu@gmail.com

    w00t's picture
    w00t
    April 16, 2008 - 9:44am
    I like to login to one site and see What's New. I don't want jump to another site to get updates.
    I like this sites Projects and the ability to reference material in the Star Frontiersman project.

    .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002

    ...yes, I can count!Cool



    Imperial Lord's picture
    Imperial Lord
    April 16, 2008 - 11:17am
    Double approval on the "What's New".  That key is, well, key...

    Change anything except the What's New.  Gotta keep that.  Gotta gotta.